Kinja Commentary
THIS WAS ONLY GOING TO BE ABOUT 10 WORDS LONG BUT THEN IT KEPT UNFOLDING AS I WROTE IT, SO HERE IS A POINT I WANT TO MAKE UP FRONT BEFORE PEOPLE USE THIS TO BEAT EACH OTHER: Kinja on the front-end has serious interaction issues, although the larger platform itself is fascinating. It's pretty easy to assign blame to product and software engineers for these issues, but at the same time can feel the product direction changing as you use this CMS; there are multiple products inside of here and they are in conflict, and this manifests as inconsistencies in the UX.
Here's a screenshot of the Kinja text editor:
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776348485064858029.png)
I WANTED TO ADD A HEADLINE AND I JUST TURNED AN ENTIRE LONG SECTION INTO AN h2 what happened it look like a plate of scrambled eggs all the fonts are different sizes and when I hit delete the ENTIRE PARAGRAPH IS erased OKAY thank god UNDO works wait i just erased this entire headline somehow maybe by hitting delete twice yes that appears to be it definitely don't hit delete twice while editing a headline gotit okay the fonts are normal now.
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776348485201942701.gif)
Okay I was down at the bottom writing about undo semantics and then I selected "h2" and now I'm back up at the top of the document by the massive H2. Hello, Paul from 20 minutes ago. I'm going to head back down to the bottom and mess around a little more.
Okay a lot of space showed up here and I'm not sure why. Oh good now I'm back after saving and that space is gone. Eventual consistency :). (No autosmilies.)
This part below is where I started writing, actually; the only reason there is text above here is that the editor kept kicking me back to the top and I wanted to capture that
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776375844885431985.gif)
A Gawker editor recently turned a twitter link I posted into a post and asked me to contribute which forced me to sign up for Kinja and now I have a Kinja account. I mean this is probably my tenth Kinja account but it's at least the twentieth Kinja. I've made fun of Kinja for its weird modals insisting I log in long enough, it's time to see what's here.
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776348485476923565.gif)
So let's see what Kinja can do as a content management platform. I can have italics if I select them and cmd-i but not if I just hit cmd-i wait it turned them on along the way I CAN'T TURN THEM OFF IT JUST KIND OF WORKED okay so if i hit cmd-i TWICE while entering italics text it works, sort of. Let's see if it works consistently. No it does not work consistently. Okay let's move to bolding. Bolding works fine. No, I can't turn it off. I just tried to cursor to the end of the current window and turn off bolding assuming that might get me out of the bold state but no. Let's see if I can get Bold Italic YES OKAY ALL THINGS ARE POSSIBLE. And back to GODDAMMIT ITALICS ARE STILL ON WHEN WILL THEY TURN OFF okay I hit CMD-i once and italics were off. This is a link and I really like the full-text modal window that pops up because I don't have to think about anything but the text of this link. Link integration in editors is prettttttty brutal; I personally agree with the choice to make it a full takeover modal. I wonder if I will be able to easily edit the link text once I insert this? I can and that's good. It does the popover on link thing suggesting I edit the link. Okay now I am going to save this and then I'm going to come back and try to cut and paste all of it.
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776348485761937325.jpg)
There used to be a caption here in small text, but the CMS lost that caption when I saved the document. To be fair I was trying to save the document after I tried to upload a document but then the image-saving process entered into some sort of upload loop and wouldn't terminate; basically the Kinja equivalent of pinwheel. So I'm not sure what saved and what didn't.
Everything else I've noted is just regular bugs and quirks, even if there are a lot of them, but allowing me to save and giving me the affirming that I've saved and then losing my text is bad. The hang-when-uploading-image stuff happens, but the loss of data is the only thing that moves me from "amused and hopeful" to "completely terrified" when it comes to this CMS.
BTW, the caption for the photo above, before it got lost, was "product vision."
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776369290809035184.gif)
Huh
This CMS is somewhat opinionated. Not strongly opinionated. Not consistently opinionated. It doesn't seem to reinvent the wheel entirely. "Quotes are not very smart." “Unicode does seem to pass through, though. So we have UTF-8.” No word on emoji. Should be fine. Not even gonna worry about it.
Other Notes
Cutting and pasting worked! Cutting and pasting worked! Cutting and pasting worked! Cutting and pasting worked! Cutting and pasting worked! Cutting and pasting worked!
Post Scheduler
The POST SCHEDULER is a great piece of work. That's a great live widget. I think that's my favorite thing here. I don't know why it shows timezone if you can't manipulate timezone. But quibbles.
Tagging
Tagging is pretty unexciting–a basic implementation without a ton of smarts. Fine, I guess, but it could be a driver for social integration on this platform given the audience. Such a great way for people to find each other. BuzzFeed does a weird job with this too. Tricky.
Search for a string in the editor
Not really.
Uploading an Image
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/joafpil2n7lg6d2zefj4.jpg)
Okay automatic image text wrapping with no options is pretty great, exactly how it should be. I am worried I will click on this image and see choices for arranging it on the page (which I think is important for a different, lower-volume CMS but could be fatal here). NO! Good job. Advantage simplicity.
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776330515598143663.jpg)
I wonder what it's like to read on mobile. Using this CMS reminds of just how insanely hard product work can be and how impossible it is to simplify. The funny with Gawker is that it tries to compete with everything in multiple industries. [ARGH CAN'T TURN OFF ITALICS AGAIN.] There we go. To be fair it's something NO ONE gets right. The deal is that you say this will be italics and now I will stop italicizing but right then you decide that the word "but" [argh come on smart quotes] was the wrong word to use at that exact spot and you've started typing "b" and change your mind and hit delete, which erases the "b" AND the invisible indicator that a non-italicized section is beginning. Maybe the right thing to do is to put an impermeable WordPerfect-style invisible TURNED_OFF_ITALICS shim into the array at the moment a person hit CMD-i, and then highlight that once the cursor goes back again.
Oh wow I've turned on "inspect element" in Chrome to see what's actually happening on key events and huh this thing is a lot weirder than I thought it was. I have sympathy, though.
![Illustration for article titled FOR THE LOVE OF CONTENT MANAGEMENT I AM GOING TO LEARN ABOUT KINJA which apparently has headline limits in length no actually it just has a counter regarding headline length and its unclear exactly how long headlines can be and if they can be really long or not, but one thing is clear and that is that headlines cant have italics anyway this headline [oh no according to Twitter, which is apparently where you go for Kinja documentation, you emcan have italics/em by putting gt;emlt; tags into the headline which is admittedly perfectly intuitive i cant believe people dont just know automatically that this CMS supports HTML tags in its headlines anyway back to our show] is 484 characters and I dont know why its telling me the character count in red maybe if I put my mouse over the red thing nope](https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_800/776375845050063281.gif)
oh man it's hard to get a header in here sometimes
[1]This should be a header but instead it just put a weird empty space and i bet if i go up and type something in that space...
This is text I selected to make a headline about blockquotes. (After I saved it did turn into a headline but while I was editing it was not a headline. There is some serious line-spacing with these heds. It just stayed the same, so I wrote...)
here is what the above looked like in the text editor when I edited it; here is a picture:
Comments
Paul Ford
Hey Ben! I love this reply. I know you didn't read it this way but for the public record I wasn't intending any kind of sack-beating; I was playing around and having a great time writing up what I found and should have been more thoughtful about the fact that it would find an audience. In truth it is a FUN CMS to use, which matters.
(NOTE TO PEOPLE OF THE FUTURE WHO ONLY READ THE MEAN PARTS AND MISSED THE SYMPATHETIC PARTS: Anyone who would pile on to Kinja based on what I wrote is being goofy; these same problems are everywhere to some degree or other in every CMS that tries to deal with the DOM. The issue with bold/unbold/delete is endemic throughout the industry. Even Google Docs occasionally loses its goddam mind. [PEDANTIC NOTE: If anyone is curious WHY, it's partially because the hierarchical document object model that is used to draw a page in the browser is a difficult abstraction and it's not designed for text editing. Making a rich text editor in a browser is an UNHOLY act.])
Back to this: I'm also really interested in Scribe and have just started playing with it—it'd be great if the whole industry was building on a common open platform for this kind of stuff, and over time I bet the browser vendors would pay attention and fix the inconsistencies that Scribe addresses. The world is headed in the direction of live DOM manipulation, so hopefully standards will emerge. Will take years, of course.
Also after messing around this morning I can see glimmers of the platform underneath it and it's really really fascinating to me. I think it's pretty great that you're fixing this stuff and I kind of love getting the update; awesome.
Writing this comment was pretty seamless, BTW.
Brian Barrett
Wait we didn't have a CMS team?
Jim Spanfeller is a Herb
We've had a kind of rotating pool of developers who work on editor-related features, and now we're switching things up to be a bit more formally structured. Quick weekly meetings to review progress, more dedicated people to focus on urgent bugs, etc.
Brian Barrett
This is both surprising and frustrating to hear for those of us who have relied on the editor for our most basic employment-related functions—to create posts that bring in readers that draw advertisers that pay for Kinja—for the last 14 months!
Better late than never, I guess?
RandomPhotographer
Do you, by chance, happen to have OCD and/or severe anxiety?
Paul Ford
I am extremely allergic to insinuation.
Bob Sorokanich
pssst < e m >BUTTS BUTTS BUTTS< / e m > shows up italic in headlines if you remove the spaces
Annika B
hello i have come to annotate things
Annie's Boobs
Voice over intercom:
"Paul Ford, please report to HR. And bring your things."
Gazs
As a Gawker/Kinja dev, this was my favorite post all month!
Rex Sorgatz
The best thing is, no one will ask you to cross-post this anywhere.
Adrianne Jeffries
yo paul come try chorus
Jim Spanfeller is a Herb
1. There are a lot of sad things here. Thank you for trying out the editor and writing up your experience so clearly!
2. We recently started scaling up the team focused on the editor. Until very recently, there wasn't a CMS team to even hypothetically have their feelings hurt by this post. Now there are people (including me) whose heads are on the line!
3. One of the bugs you mentioned is now fixed but I'm not going to gloat about us quickly resolving one of the formatting issues when there are still so many glaring problems. We're working on resolving these ASAP, especially the bug where text can inadvertently get deleted if it somehow strays into the container around an image (which is related to the big ugly block of markup you noted).
4. (This is probably TMI, but just in case you're interested.) We're investigating replacing the editor component we're using, as a lot of bugs stem from using an non-open-source, off-the-shelf editor with a ton of patches and custom extensions applied. https://github.com/guardian/scrib… is one good candidate for the editor core.
5. More long-term, there is going to be a major UI redesign, but we're working on making the current editor a less horrific, and eventually even pleasant, experience in the meantime.